{"id":348326,"date":"2024-10-22T08:01:47","date_gmt":"2024-10-22T06:01:47","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=348326"},"modified":"2024-10-22T08:01:50","modified_gmt":"2024-10-22T06:01:50","slug":"the-defr-follies-cost-of-hydrogen-storage","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=348326","title":{"rendered":"The DEFR Follies — Cost Of Hydrogen Storage"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n\n\n\n

From Manhattan Contrarian<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

By Francis Menton<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Here in New York we have our own unique and special acronym for how we think we are going to make our future emissions-free electrical grid work with predominantly wind and solar generation. The acronym is DEFR \u2014 the \u201cDispatchable Emissions-Free Resource.\u201d When the sun goes down and the wind stops blowing in the dead of winter, we will crank up the DEFR to keep us all warm and cozy. There will of course be zero carbon emissions, because by definition the DEFR is \u201cemissions-free.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Unfortunately nobody is quite sure what this DEFR might be. There are only a few options. Nuclear could work, but in New York it is completely blocked by regulatory obstruction and the certainty of decades of litigation. Batteries are wildly too expensive and physically not up to the job. That leaves many green energy advocates grasping at hydrogen as the last remaining option. Granted, we don\u2019t yet have any meaningful production of hydrogen from carbon-free sources. But it seems so simple: just use wind and solar generators to run electrolyzers to make hydrogen from water; then store the hydrogen in some big caverns, and burn it when you need it. No carbon is involved. Problem solved!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019ve had a few posts over the past couple of years commenting on some of the many issues that make this \u201cgreen\u201d hydrogen fantasy infeasible. This post from June 2022<\/a> noted that the cost of making hydrogen from water is unlikely ever to fall below, or even close to, the cost of getting new natural gas out of the ground; this post from August 2024<\/a> discussed numerous other problems with hydrogen, like its lower energy density compared to natural gas, and the prospective need for a whole new infrastructure of pipelines, power plants, delivery trucks and consumer appliances.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Now comes along a new study focusing on a different piece of the costs of using hydrogen as a main energy source for the economy. The issue is the cost of storing the hydrogen from the time of its production until it is needed for use. The new study appeared in the scientific journal Joule on October 8 with the title \u201cCarbon abatement costs of green hydrogen across end-use sectors.\u201d<\/a> (The link goes just to a lengthy introduction and abstract. You\u2019ll need to pay $35 to get the whole article, but the introduction at the link tells you what you need to know.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Perhaps most significant about this new study is the authors. They are Roxana Shafiee and Daniel Schrag, both of whom work at Harvard and have impeccable climate cult credentials, including multiple appointments at various Harvard sub-schools and institutes (Harvard University Center for the Environment, Harvard Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Harvard Paulson School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, Harvard Kennedy School Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs \u2014 you get the idea). These are not people who can be dismissed as \u201cclimate deniers.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Shafiee and Schrag correctly recognize that the cost of producing hydrogen from water is just a piece, and possibly a small piece, of the cost of getting useful hydrogen to a consumer at point of use. They criticize green hydrogen enthusiasts for paying insufficient attention to other costs, and particularly to the costs of \u201cstorage and distribution\u201d:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hydrogen generated via electrolysis using renewable energy (green hydrogen) has gained prominence as a potential strategy in decarbonizing hard-to-abate sectors of the economy, in which electrification is technically challenging or prohibitively expensive. Many governments have set policy targets and, in some cases, financial incentives for green hydrogen production, with the expectation that production costs will fall rapidly in the coming decades, providing low-cost carbon abatement opportunities across many sectors. Yet, <\/em>many recent analyses do not consider the storage and distribution costs of delivering green hydrogen to different sectors or how these costs may vary across end uses<\/em><\/strong>.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So Shafiee and Schrag set out to correct those deficiencies. To their credit, S&S have figured out that the costs of distribution and storage infrastructure are highly dependent on how intensely that infrastructure is used. (As far as I can determine, not one of the thousands of people in the vast New York energy regulatory bureaucracies has yet figured out this simple principle.) The more often the storage gets cycled, the lower the charge for each unit of energy stored and then used. S&S note that some sectors, particularly industries like petrochemicals and steel, can cycle hydrogen storage many times per month, thus driving down costs. Unfortunately, the same does not apply to the power sector:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Although low costs of hydrogen storage and distribution (<$1\/kgH2) are possible through economies of scale, this requires high utilization of storage and distribution infrastructure, which is not applicable to all end-use sectors. If storage and distribution infrastructure is used at a low rate, costs increase significantly. <\/em>Salt cavern storage costs increase from less than $0.50\/kgH2 to $6\/kgH2, on average, if stores are cycled fewer than 10 times per year, for example, in the context of seasonal changes in demand (e.g., heating or electricity generation).<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s right: hydrogen produced and stored for purposes of home heating only gets cycled once per year at most. To understand the significance of the costs cited, recall that the energy-equivalence conversion factor from $\/kgH2 to $\/MMBTU (the units in which natural gas prices are customarily quoted) is 8. $6\/kgH2 converts to $48\/MMBTU. And that\u2019s just for the intra-year storage. Meanwhile, the current price for Henry Hub natural gas is $3.06\/MMBTU, and most of it does not need to be stored for any significant period because it gets produced roughly as needed to meet demand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So kudos to S&S for figuring out that cost of storage for hydrogen is a big and unrecognized issue. But unfortunately, they only go as far as considering intra-year storage. There is also a huge issue of multi-year storage if green hydrogen is to become the backup for a grid powered mostly by wind and sun. In a post on September 28, 2023<\/a>, I covered a Report then just out from Britain\u2019s Royal Society<\/a> dealing with issues of long-term energy storage to back up wind and solar generators. The Royal Society had collected weather data for Britain for some 37 years, which had revealed that there are worst-case wind and sun \u201cdroughts,\u201d comparable to rain droughts, that may occur only once every 20 years or more. A storage solution to back up wind and solar electricity generation without fossil fuel back-up needs to cover these worst-case droughts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The Royal Society Report includes the following graph of potentially needed withdrawals from storage to cover these worst case droughts:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

The graph shows that of the storage needed for full back-up over the 37 year period of data, fully half would only have been called on twice, and about a quarter would only have been called on once. Perhaps S&S should go back to their laptops to figure out how much salt cavern storage costs per unit of energy stored when it only gets called on once in 37 years. If storage that gets cycled once per year costs $6\/kgH2, does storage that gets cycled once per 37 years cost $222\/kgH2? The blended cost \u2014 between the storage that gets cycled once per year and the rarely-used part that gets cycled only once every 10 or 20 or even 37 years \u2014 would look to be around $100\/kgH2, equivalent to $800\/MMBTU of natural gas. That\u2019s more than 250 times the current price of natural gas, and of course is only the cost of storage. The cost of actually producing the hydrogen would be additional.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I understand that there are people moving forward on setting up some of this hydrogen infrastructure, funded with government subsidies. It\u2019s almost impossible to imagine how much subsidies it would take to make such a system fully functional. It will never happen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Here in New York we have our own unique and special acronym for how we think we are going to make our future emissions-free electrical grid work with predominantly wind and solar generation. The acronym is DEFR \u2014 the \u201cDispatchable Emissions-Free Resource.\u201d When the sun goes down and the wind stops blowing in the dead of winter, we will crank up the DEFR to keep us all warm and cozy. There will of course be zero carbon emissions, because by definition the DEFR is \u201cemissions-free.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":121246920,"featured_media":348330,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","_crdt_document":"","advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[691823860,691831051,691831052,691818154,691818867],"class_list":{"0":"post-348326","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","6":"hentry","7":"category-uncategorized","8":"tag-electrical-grid","9":"tag-emissions-free","10":"tag-hydrogen-fantasy","11":"tag-net-zero","12":"tag-new-york","14":"fallback-thumbnail"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paxLW1-1sCa","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":344377,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=344377","url_meta":{"origin":348326,"position":0},"title":"Why There Will Never Be A Zero Emissions Electricity System Powered Mainly By Wind And Sun","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"24\/09\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"\u201cNet Zero\u201d \u2014 That\u2019s the two-word slogan that has been adopted as the official goal of every virtuous state or country for decarbonizing its energy system. The \u201cnet\u201d part is backhanded recognition that some parts of the energy system (like maybe air travel or steelmaking) may never be fully de-carbonized.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"decarbonizing\"","block_context":{"text":"decarbonizing","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=decarbonizing"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/OIG-20.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/OIG-20.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/OIG-20.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/OIG-20.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":338091,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=338091","url_meta":{"origin":348326,"position":1},"title":"Compendium of DEFR Analyses","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"31\/07\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"The organizations responsible for the New York State electricity system transition to net-zero agree that new technologies are necessary to keep the lights on during periods of extended low wind and solar resource availability. This article references six analyses that describe a new category of generating resources called Dispatchable Emissions-Free\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Dispatchable Emissions-Free Resources (DEFR)\"","block_context":{"text":"Dispatchable Emissions-Free Resources (DEFR)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=dispatchable-emissions-free-resources-defr"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/OIG.vexv09x7eceJyz8z.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/OIG.vexv09x7eceJyz8z.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/OIG.vexv09x7eceJyz8z.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/OIG.vexv09x7eceJyz8z.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":334210,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=334210","url_meta":{"origin":348326,"position":2},"title":"In Case You Think Someone Has The Answer To New York’s Looming Energy Disaster","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"23\/06\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"In this post last week, I took note that New York\u2019s electric grid system operator, NYISO, has recently issued some clear, if muted, warnings of the impossibility of the energy transition mandated by the state\u2019s 2019 Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act (CLCPA). In a November 2023 Report, NYISO stated\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Energy\"","block_context":{"text":"Energy","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=energy"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/OIG-21.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/OIG-21.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/OIG-21.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/OIG-21.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":352099,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=352099","url_meta":{"origin":348326,"position":3},"title":"New York DEFR Concerns Update","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"23\/11\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"I am convinced that implementation of the New York\u00a0Climate Leadership & Community Protection Act\u00a0(Climate Act) net-zero mandates will do\u00a0more harm than good\u00a0if the electric system transition relies on wind, solar, and energy storage.\u00a0 My primary reliability concern is the challenge of providing electric energy during periods of extended low wind\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Climate Leadership & Community Protection Act\u00a0(Climate Act)\"","block_context":{"text":"Climate Leadership & Community Protection Act\u00a0(Climate Act)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=climate-leadership-community-protection-act-climate-act-2"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/OIG-85.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/OIG-85.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/OIG-85.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/OIG-85.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":375076,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=375076","url_meta":{"origin":348326,"position":4},"title":"Implication of Assessment of Extreme Renewable Resource Lulls","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"15\/04\/2025","format":false,"excerpt":"Francis Menton (here) and I (here\u00a0and\u00a0here) have previously written about the magical dispatchable emissions-free resource (DEFR) technology that New York State agencies are using to describe the resource needed during periods of extended low wind and solar resource availability for an electric system that relies on wind, solar, and energy\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Climate Change Committee (CCC)\"","block_context":{"text":"Climate Change Committee (CCC)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=climate-change-committee-ccc"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":317586,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=317586","url_meta":{"origin":348326,"position":5},"title":"Illustrating The Absurdity Of New York’s Energy Transition","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"14\/04\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"By its 2019 Climate Act, New York has officially embarked on a great energy transition to Net Zero by 2050, with statutorily-dictated interim mandates along the way. 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