{"id":344984,"date":"2024-10-02T16:36:08","date_gmt":"2024-10-02T14:36:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=344984"},"modified":"2024-10-02T16:36:11","modified_gmt":"2024-10-02T14:36:11","slug":"physicists-non-greenhouse-gases-o2-and-n2-are-mainly-responsible-for-the-33c-greenhouse-effect","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=344984","title":{"rendered":"Physicists: Non-Greenhouse Gases (O2 and N2) Are Mainly Responsible For The 33\u00b0C Greenhouse Effect"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n\n\n\n

From NoTricksZone<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

By\u00a0Kenneth Richard<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThe heat retention in the greenhouse Earth is caused by all gas components\u2026mainly by nitrogen and oxygen. It is not permissible to exclusively assign the GH effect of 33\u00b0 to water vapour, CO2, and the other trace gases.\u201d \u2013 Ullmann and B\u00fclow, 2024<\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n

Chemical physicists Helmut Ullmann<\/a><\/strong> and Martin B\u00fclow<\/a><\/strong> have published a new paper<\/a><\/strong> detailing the lack of meaningful or noticeable \u201cspecialness\u201d that trace greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide (CO2, 0.042% of the atmosphere) and methane (CH4, 0.00018%) possess in determining Earth\u2019s greenhouse effect heating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Image Source:\u00a0Ullmann and B\u00fclow, 2024<\/a><\/strong><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

The imagined 33\u00b0C greenhouse effect thought experiment<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The popularized greenhouse effect thought experiment requires imagining what temperature the Earth would be if there were no atmospheric greenhouse gases (water vapor, CO2, CH4). It is believed these trace (less than 0.1% of the atmospheric composition combined) heat-absorbing gaseous agents, combined with water vapor (up to 4% of the atmosphere in tropical areas), are the only<\/em> gases capable of restricting heat loss to space. Thus, greenhouse gases are thought to ultimately keep the Earth\u2019s land and ocean surface temperature 33\u00b0C warmer (288 K vs. 255 K) than it would otherwise be in their imagined absence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It is simultaneously imagined that even though oxygen (O2, 21%), nitrogen (N2, 78%), and argon (Ar, 0.9%) together account for 999,000 ppm (99.9%) of the atmosphere\u2019s gaseous composition, none of these gases absorb and re-emit heat, and thus they cannot slow cooling or count as contributors to the imagined 33\u00b0C warmer Earth atmosphere. Only the trace gases and water vapor \u2013 the so-called greenhouse gases \u2013 can slow cooling, or retain heat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s what the thought experiment says, anyway. Physics say otherwise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The O2 and N2 greenhouse effect<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ullmann and B\u00fclow point out that the greenhouse effect is not only not exclusively determined by trace greenhouse gases like CO2 or CH4, but these trace gases play such an unimportant role that they\u2019re not even noticeable. Only water vapor has the capacity to absorb heat to a degree that is detectable. The primary gaseous determinants of Earth\u2019s greenhouse effect are not trace gases like CO2 and CH4, but, consistent with their atmospheric abundance, N2 and O2.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThe basic constituents of the atmosphere, nitrogen and oxygen, are the main contributors to heat storage in the Earth\u2019s GH [greenhouse effect].\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThe heat retention in the greenhouse Earth is caused by all gas components\u2026mainly by nitrogen and oxygen. It is not permissible to exclusively assign the GH effect of 33\u00b0 to water vapour, CO2, and the other trace gases.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Non-greenhouse gases absorb heat too<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

There is good reason to conclude O2 and N2 are the primary greenhouse effect determinants. Contrary to popular belief, real-world experiments show that N2, O2, and Ar actually do<\/em> absorb heat, albeit about 20% less effectively than the so-called greenhouse gases do. A mere 20% dropoff is not significant when the abundance (99.9%) of these gases is considered relative to the abundance (less than 0.1%) of greenhouse gases.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThe heat capacities of polyatomic gases, H2O and the trace gases such as CO2, CH4, and SO2 are a further approx. 20% greater than those of O2 and N2 molecules. \u2026 Multiplied by the low concentration of trace gases, they cannot noticeably increase heat storage in the air. Only H2O\u2026is able to store great amounts of heat.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

As mentioned, this phenomenon has been observed experimentally. For example, when air (99% O2 and N2), pure (100%) CO2, and pure (100%) Ar are warmed in experimental conditions, they all absorb heat to nearly the same degree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Image Source:\u00a0Allmendinger, 2016<\/a><\/strong><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Scientists agree: O2 and N2 are greenhouse gases<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

An earlier work published in Geophysical Research Letters<\/em> (Hopfner et al., 2012<\/a><\/strong>) also clarifies that O2 and N2 should be considered \u201cnatural greenhouse gases in Earth\u2019s atmosphere.\u201d Although O2 and N2 absorb heat (infrared radiation) more weakly than CO2 and CH4, they do indeed absorb heat, and they do not<\/em> have a negligible role in Earth\u2019s greenhouse effect because of their relative abundance when compared to CO2 and CH4.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThis work challenges a common perception on the negligible role of O2 and N2 as natural greenhouse gases in Earth\u2019s atmosphere\u2026\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cIt is in fact the large abundance of oxygen and nitrogen which compensates for their only weak interaction with infrared radiation\u2026\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cDue to the atmospheric concentration of atmospheric N2 (O2) that is about 2000 (550) times higher than that of Co2 and about 4.4 x 10\u2075 (1.2 x 10\u2075) times more abundant than CH4, even the weak infrared absorption of N2 (O2) can become radiatively important.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThus, we object to the view that the radiative forcing of N2 increase operates only indirectly by broadening the absorption lines of other gases.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Image Source:\u00a0Hopfner et al., 2012<\/a><\/strong><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CO2 is nothing special<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Finally, Drs. Ullmann and B\u00fclow emphasize just how non-special CO2 is as a greenhouse gas in Earth\u2019s atmosphere. As noted above, they point out that CO2\u2019s contribution to the greenhouse effect is not even noticeable. They also assert that the laws of physics require there is no so-called \u201chotspot\u201d in Earth\u2019s atmosphere due to the conglomeration of CO2 molecules. There is nothing CO2 does that is thermally \u201cspecial\u201d relative to other gases.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cAccording to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, heat is distributed from hot to cold molecules; there are no hotspots among molecules or types of molecules in the atmosphere. A special role of carbon dioxide cannot be confirmed.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Chemical physicists\u00a0Helmut Ullmann\u00a0and\u00a0Martin B\u00fclow\u00a0have published a\u00a0new paper\u00a0detailing the lack of meaningful or noticeable \u201cspecialness\u201d that trace greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide (CO2, 0.042% of the atmosphere) and methane (CH4, 0.00018%) possess in determining Earth\u2019s greenhouse effect heating.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":121246920,"featured_media":344994,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","_crdt_document":"","advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[691827130,691818296,691826963,691830768,691821703],"class_list":{"0":"post-344984","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","6":"hentry","7":"category-uncategorized","8":"tag-carbon-dioxide-co2","9":"tag-greenhouse-effect","10":"tag-methane-ch4","11":"tag-non-greenhouse-gases","12":"tag-water-vapour","14":"fallback-thumbnail"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/0sun-as-seen-from-earth-orbit.webp?fit=1200%2C675&ssl=1","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paxLW1-1rKg","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":329433,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=329433","url_meta":{"origin":344984,"position":0},"title":"New Study Finds An Extremely Low CO2 Climate Sensitivity For The Arctic And Antarctic","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"18\/05\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"The phenomenon of increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases (water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane) is assumed to lead to sharply rising temperatures in polar regions, or \u201cpolar amplification.\u201d As it turns out, it doesn\u2019t.","rel":"","context":"In \"Antarctica\"","block_context":{"text":"Antarctica","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=antarctica"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0-troposphere.webp?fit=1200%2C827&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0-troposphere.webp?fit=1200%2C827&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0-troposphere.webp?fit=1200%2C827&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0-troposphere.webp?fit=1200%2C827&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0-troposphere.webp?fit=1200%2C827&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":239846,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=239846","url_meta":{"origin":344984,"position":1},"title":"Greenhouse gas concentrations further increased in 2022, finds analysis of global satellite data","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"15\/01\/2023","format":false,"excerpt":"What was the point of all those UN climate conferences again?","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/image-694.png?fit=844%2C367&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/image-694.png?fit=844%2C367&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/image-694.png?fit=844%2C367&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/image-694.png?fit=844%2C367&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":189213,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=189213","url_meta":{"origin":344984,"position":2},"title":"Climate Change, an Emergency, or Not?","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"26\/02\/2022","format":false,"excerpt":"The Impact of CO2, H2O and Other \u201cGreenhouse Gases\u201d on Equilibrium Earth Temperatures By David Coe The cries of Climate Emergency are becoming ever more strident. 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