{"id":341006,"date":"2024-08-29T14:44:04","date_gmt":"2024-08-29T12:44:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=341006"},"modified":"2025-02-06T10:08:34","modified_gmt":"2025-02-06T09:08:34","slug":"yet-more-reasons-why-green-hydrogen-is-going-nowhere","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=341006","title":{"rendered":"Yet More Reasons Why Green Hydrogen Is Going Nowhere"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"477\" data-attachment-id=\"341009\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=341009\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?fit=2560%2C1691&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"2560,1691\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?fit=723%2C477&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?resize=723%2C477&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-341009\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?resize=1024%2C676&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?resize=300%2C198&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?resize=768%2C507&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?resize=1536%2C1015&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?resize=2048%2C1353&amp;ssl=1 2048w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?resize=1200%2C793&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?w=1446&amp;ssl=1 1446w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?w=2169&amp;ssl=1 2169w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From <a href=\"https:\/\/www.manhattancontrarian.com\/blog\/2024-8-26-yet-more-reasons-why-green-hydrogen-is-going-nowhere\">Manhattan Contrarian<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">By <a href=\"https:\/\/www.manhattancontrarian.com\/?author=503a7965e4b0b543ed24305c\">Francis Menton<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the fantasy of the zero-emissions electricity future, there will either be regular devastating blackouts, or something must back up the intermittent wind and solar generation. In New York we call that imaginary something the \u201cDEFR\u201d (Dispatchable Emissions Free Resource). But what is it? Nuclear has been blocked for decades, especially in the blue jurisdictions that are most aggressively pursuing the wind\/solar future. Batteries are technologically not up to the job, and also wildly too expensive. That leaves hydrogen. Anybody with another idea, kindly speak up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019ve had several posts discussing the question of whether hydrogen could do this job, for example <a href=\"https:\/\/www.manhattancontrarian.com\/blog\/2024-2-14-when-you-crunch-the-numbers-green-hydrogen-is-a-non-starter\">this one on February 14, 2024<\/a>, and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.manhattancontrarian.com\/blog\/2024-7-20-the-energy-transition-aint-happening-hydrogen-in-australia\">this one on July 20<\/a>. Those posts focused on the initial cost of making hydrogen by electrolysis from water. That cost turns out to be a multiple of the cost of producing natural gas by drilling into rock (for comparable energy content). From time to time I have alluded to other potential problems with having hydrogen replace natural gas in the electricity system \u2014 things like leaks, explosions, and the need for an entire new infrastructure of pipelines and trucks to carry the stuff and power plants to burn it. But until now I haven\u2019t found a detailed study on just how bad these additional problems might be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now comes along an August 18 article in a peer-reviewed journal called Energy Science &amp; Engineering, with the title <a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861\">\u201cA review of challenges with using the natural gas system for hydrogen.\u201d<\/a> The article was linked on <a href=\"https:\/\/notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com\/2024\/08\/23\/mostly-unusable-existing-gas-pipes-would-need-massive-retrofit-or-crippling-de-rating-to-carry-hydrogen-study\/\">August 23 by Paul Homewood at the Not a Lot of People Know That<\/a> site, and then further linked by <a href=\"https:\/\/wattsupwiththat.com\/2024\/08\/24\/mostly-unusable-existing-gas-pipes-would-need-massive-retrofit-or-crippling-de-rating-to-carry-hydrogen-study\/\">Watts Up With That on August 24<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The lead author is a guy named Paul Martin. Unusually for an article in such a journal, no academic affiliation is given for Mr. Martin. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/posts\/paul-martin-195763b_a-review-of-challenges-with-using-the-natural-activity-7231280126376783873-ycKH\/\">Looking him up on LinkedIn<\/a>, I find that he is not an academic, but rather identifies himself as a \u201cchemical process development expert\u201d who has spent \u201cyears in industry,\u201d and is currently with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/spitfire-research-inc\/\">Spitfire Research, Inc.<\/a>, which in turn states that it specializes in <em>\u201cconsulting for a decarbonized future.\u201d <\/em>Mr. Martin then identifies several of his co-authors on the paper as a <em>\u201cteam of people at the Environmental Defense Fund.\u201d<\/em> <em><\/em>That information may well color your perception of what Martin, et al., have to say in their paper.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The gist of the paper is that the existing natural gas infrastructure of storage facilities, pipelines and power plants absolutely cannot be repurposed for use by hydrogen; and indeed, there does not exist any practical way to transport and combust hydrogen safely on a large scale. And the effort to even try would be wildly costly. I\u2019ll just give examples of some pithy quotes from the paper:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Pipeline deterioration and cracking: \u201c<em>Recent, extensive testing of typical pipeline materials in Europe demonstrates both acceleration of fatigue cracking and reduction in fracture toughness when hydrogen is used, but the impacts vary widely depending on the material.<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-bib-0036\"><em>36<\/em><\/a><em> Welds and their heat-affected zones, as well as manufacturing or fabrication defects in the pipe increase vulnerability by serving as crack initiation sites.<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-bib-0037\"><em>37<\/em><\/a><em>\u201d<\/em><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u201cBlending\u201d hydrogen into natural gas is not a solution: <em>\u201cEven with small percentage admixtures of molecular hydrogen in high pressure natural gas pipes made of high-yield strength carbon steels it is expected that considerable acceleration of fatigue cracking, by as much as 30-fold, will occur with fracture resistance of the piping material reduced by as much as 50%.<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-bib-0034\"><em>34<\/em><\/a><em>\u201d<\/em><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Lower volumetric energy density of hydrogen means that pipelines and storage facilities would need to be tripled in size to transport the same energy content: <em>\u201cSwitching the gas system to pure H2, with an energy density per unit volume roughly one-third that of a typical pipeline gas; therefore, would result in a reduction in \u201cline pack\u201d storage to one-third of the present value if storage pressure and volume are kept constant (Figure\u00a0<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-fig-0005\"><em>5<\/em><\/a><em>).<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-bib-0049\"><em>49<\/em><\/a><em> If pipeline design pressures must be de-rated to accommodate the added risks associated with hydrogen to the pipeline materials of construction (as discussed in Section\u00a0<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-sec-0080\"><em>3.2<\/em><\/a><em>), a further reduction in the line pack would be expected.\u201d<\/em><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Existing consumer appliances that use natural gas are unsuitable for hydrogen: <em>\u201cH2 is also more explosive, ignitable, burns hotter, and the flame is faster with lower visibility than CH4; these characteristics yield higher safety risks. The significant differences in properties between typical natural gas mixtures and H2, therefore, necessitate changes in the design of burners and burner management systems to achieve comparative levels of safety, which must then be certified (Figure\u00a0<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-fig-0006\"><em>6<\/em><\/a><em>).<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-bib-0017\"><em>17<\/em><\/a><em>, <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-bib-0067\"><em>67<\/em><\/a><em>\u201d.<\/em><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Even with new consumer infrastructure, hydrogen would be much more dangerous for consumers than natural gas: <em>\u201cA quantitative risk assessment (QRA) was carried out in advance of a planned trial of pure H2 in a residential gas distribution system in the UK.<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/full\/10.1002\/ese3.1861#ese31861-bib-0018\"><em>18<\/em><\/a><em> The report concluded that even if the homes were fitted with appliances designed and certified for use with H2, the risk of damage and injury due to fires and explosions would increase in frequency and severity.\u201d<\/em><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Conclusion: <em>\u201cOverall, while repurposing the natural gas system for use with hydrogen may, at first, seem appealing, the limited practicality, risks, and data gaps strongly suggest that like-for-like gas substitution provides limited benefits for increased risks, even if major technical and economic hurdles are overcome.\u201d<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After all that, you might think that these authors would have given up and decided that we\u2019ll just have to stick with natural gas. But no, remember that these are anti-carbon crusaders allied with the Environmental Defense Fund. Here is the final paragraph of the Conclusion:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>[C]ontinuing to rely on natural gas is also not a viable option for addressing the climate crisis. Considering its physical and chemical properties, hydrogen is not an effective decarbonization tool for use in homes and buildings. For any decarbonization strategy, it is critical to determine if a fuel is in fact needed, and to compare with potentially more effective options such as direct electrification using renewably generated electricity.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019ll just have \u201cdirect electrification using renewably generated electricity.\u201d I guess that means, put solar panels on your roof, and when the sun sets the air conditioning and heat go off and the lights go out. It\u2019s the gkam solution without the undisclosed nighttime grid hookup.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Perhaps the most valuable part of the article is the EDF revealing that it stands ready to oppose the buildout of hydrogen infrastructure just as vigorously as it opposes any natural gas infrastructure. Even if zero-emissions electricity were important and hydrogen were a good solution to get there, EDF would be ready with a litigation barrage to block it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the fantasy of the zero-emissions electricity future, there will either be regular devastating blackouts, or something must back up the intermittent wind and solar generation. In New York we call that imaginary something the \u201cDEFR\u201d (Dispatchable Emissions Free Resource). But what is it?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":121246920,"featured_media":341009,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","_crdt_document":"","advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[691829915,691819849,691818154],"class_list":{"0":"post-341006","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","6":"hentry","7":"category-uncategorized","8":"tag-dispatchable-emissions-free-resources-defr","9":"tag-green-hydrogen","10":"tag-net-zero","12":"fallback-thumbnail"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0Green-Hydrogen_shutterstock_2172061583-scaled-1.webp?fit=2560%2C1691&ssl=1","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paxLW1-1qI6","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":334210,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=334210","url_meta":{"origin":341006,"position":0},"title":"In Case You Think Someone Has The Answer To New York&#8217;s Looming Energy Disaster","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"23\/06\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"In this post last week, I took note that New York\u2019s electric grid system operator, NYISO, has recently issued some clear, if muted, warnings of the impossibility of the energy transition mandated by the state\u2019s 2019 Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act (CLCPA). In a November 2023 Report, NYISO stated\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Energy\"","block_context":{"text":"Energy","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=energy"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/OIG-21.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/OIG-21.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/OIG-21.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/OIG-21.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":338091,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=338091","url_meta":{"origin":341006,"position":1},"title":"Compendium of DEFR Analyses","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"31\/07\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"The organizations responsible for the New York State electricity system transition to net-zero agree that new technologies are necessary to keep the lights on during periods of extended low wind and solar resource availability. This article references six analyses that describe a new category of generating resources called Dispatchable Emissions-Free\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Dispatchable Emissions-Free Resources (DEFR)\"","block_context":{"text":"Dispatchable Emissions-Free Resources (DEFR)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=dispatchable-emissions-free-resources-defr"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/OIG.vexv09x7eceJyz8z.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/OIG.vexv09x7eceJyz8z.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/OIG.vexv09x7eceJyz8z.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/OIG.vexv09x7eceJyz8z.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":352099,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=352099","url_meta":{"origin":341006,"position":2},"title":"New York DEFR Concerns Update","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"23\/11\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"I am convinced that implementation of the New York\u00a0Climate Leadership & Community Protection Act\u00a0(Climate Act) net-zero mandates will do\u00a0more harm than good\u00a0if the electric system transition relies on wind, solar, and energy storage.\u00a0 My primary reliability concern is the challenge of providing electric energy during periods of extended low wind\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Climate Leadership &amp; Community Protection Act\u00a0(Climate Act)\"","block_context":{"text":"Climate Leadership &amp; Community Protection Act\u00a0(Climate Act)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=climate-leadership-community-protection-act-climate-act-2"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/OIG-85.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/OIG-85.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/OIG-85.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/OIG-85.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":375076,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=375076","url_meta":{"origin":341006,"position":3},"title":"Implication of Assessment of Extreme Renewable Resource Lulls","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"15\/04\/2025","format":false,"excerpt":"Francis Menton (here) and I (here\u00a0and\u00a0here) have previously written about the magical dispatchable emissions-free resource (DEFR) technology that New York State agencies are using to describe the resource needed during periods of extended low wind and solar resource availability for an electric system that relies on wind, solar, and energy\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Climate Change Committee (CCC)\"","block_context":{"text":"Climate Change Committee (CCC)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=climate-change-committee-ccc"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/0bc99e1528bc3d200ae20e46f07c88b6f63ed4634-1792x1024-1.webp?fit=1200%2C686&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":344377,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=344377","url_meta":{"origin":341006,"position":4},"title":"Why There Will Never Be A Zero Emissions Electricity System Powered Mainly By Wind And Sun","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"24\/09\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"\u201cNet Zero\u201d \u2014 That\u2019s the two-word slogan that has been adopted as the official goal of every virtuous state or country for decarbonizing its energy system. The \u201cnet\u201d part is backhanded recognition that some parts of the energy system (like maybe air travel or steelmaking) may never be fully de-carbonized.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"decarbonizing\"","block_context":{"text":"decarbonizing","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=decarbonizing"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/OIG-20.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/OIG-20.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/OIG-20.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/OIG-20.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":348326,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=348326","url_meta":{"origin":341006,"position":5},"title":"The DEFR Follies &#8212; Cost Of Hydrogen Storage","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"22\/10\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Here in New York we have our own unique and special acronym for how we think we are going to make our future emissions-free electrical grid work with predominantly wind and solar generation. The acronym is DEFR \u2014 the \u201cDispatchable Emissions-Free Resource.\u201d When the sun goes down and the wind\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Electrical Grid\"","block_context":{"text":"Electrical Grid","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=electrical-grid"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/341006","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/121246920"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=341006"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/341006\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":341010,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/341006\/revisions\/341010"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/341009"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=341006"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=341006"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=341006"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}