{"id":339825,"date":"2024-08-17T08:48:17","date_gmt":"2024-08-17T06:48:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=339825"},"modified":"2024-08-17T08:48:19","modified_gmt":"2024-08-17T06:48:19","slug":"dear-elon-1000ppm-of-carbon-dioxide-is-safe-we-breathe-it-every-day","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=339825","title":{"rendered":"Dear Elon, 1,000ppm of carbon dioxide is safe, we breathe it every day"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n\n\n\n

From JoNova <\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

By Jo Nova<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n

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Every person here is breathing out 40,000 ppm CO2<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n

Elon is scratching for a reason to keep worrying about CO2<\/h3>\n\n\n\n

In the interview with Donald Trump, Elon Musk tried to argue that we ought be limiting carbon dioxide because we are too close to 1,000ppm where people get headaches. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we breath out air at 40,000 ppm fifteen times a minute for our entire lives. If 1,000 ppm gave us a headache or made us nauseous, we\u2019d have to hold our breath every time we kissed someone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

@ElonMusk:<\/strong> <\/a> The point I was making is that, even if CO2 did not cause global warming, it is uncomfortable to breathe air with >1000 ppm of CO2. Given that the outdoor ppm away from cities is now ~420 (lol), it is already getting close to 1000 ppm indoors in cities at times. You can buy a cheap CO2 monitor and measure this for yourself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

As the global base level of CO2 keeps increasing, it will cause air quality in cities to feel stuffy and unpleasant, resulting in drowsiness, poor concentration and eventually headaches and nausea. That would not be a good future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And then he quotes CO2meter.com<\/a> which, ahem, sells CO2 meters, and has an incentive to wildly overstate the problems with CO2, which they do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CO2 is not the problem, the stale air and other pollutants cause headaches and sleepiness<\/h4>\n\n\n\n

The point of CO2 meters is not so much to warn us about excessive CO2 levels, but to indicate how well the room is ventilated.  CO2 levels are just an indicator for air quality. Air with higher CO2 levels usually also has higher levels of organic compounds, humidity, body odour, mold, chemicals from furniture and paint (like formaldehyde) and potentially viruses too. When people report headaches and nausea, the high CO2 levels are not the issue, it\u2019s the bioeffluence that causes problems. When researchers do cognitive tests with pure CO2 added to clean air, performances don\u2019t suffer.  The stale air is the problem, not the CO2. (See Zhang<\/a>, and Misra <\/a>where they compared the cognitive effects from badly ventilated air and clean air with high CO2 levels up to 3,000ppm. Problems disappear when they use fresh air plus higher CO2.) Well ventilated rooms may also be cooler rooms, which might explain why results so often contradict each other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Classrooms are at 1,000ppm \u201ctypically\u201d<\/h4>\n\n\n\n

While outdoor air is 420ppm, indoor levels of CO2 are commonly 1,000ppm in classrooms every day, and can rise as high as 3,000ppm if all the windows are shut.<\/a> The recognized occupational health and safety levels for long term working exposure are 5,000 ppm for 8 hours straight, five days a week. It\u2019s no big deal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The National Collaborative Centre for Environmental Health (Canada<\/a>) measured school and buildings and advises that \u201cTypically, in an occupied classroom situation, the recommended level of ventilation would correspond to a CO2 level of approximately 1000-1100 ppm<\/strong>\u201c. Furthermore, they said the \u201clowest level at which a human health effect (i.e. acidosis) has been observed in humans is 7,000 ppm, and that only after several weeks of continuous exposure in a submarine environment\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The occupational limits for CO2<\/sub>recommended by the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) are 5000 ppm (TLV-TWA) and 30,000 ppm (TLV-STEL), based on the direct effects on acidification of the blood.  \u2014 via Marc Morano and Climate Depot<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n

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At NASA The Office of the Chief Health and Medicial Officer<\/a> reports that a typical spacecraft works at around 3,000-7,000 ppm (or o.3-0.7% CO2). The recommended exposure is 5,000, and the permissible exposure limit is 10,000 ppm. Although the flight surgeons found levels of nearly 7,000 were safe and \u201cdidn\u2019t affect performance\u201d. On Apollo 13, CO2 levels rose to 20,000ppm. Sweating and shortness of breath became a problem above 30,000 ppm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Submariners typically live with CO2 levels of 2,000- 5,000 ppm, and when a small sample of sailors was tested at 600, 2500 or 15,000 ppm, the researchers couldn\u2019t find any difference in results from an 80 minute test on decision making. (Rodeheffer at al) Likewise another study at the Johnson Space Centre, people did cognition tests at 600, 1,200, 2,500 and 5,000ppm and there was no dose response effect. Results look rather random.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Lowther et al looked at 51 studies in 2021, and found nothing conclusive in terms of harms from CO2 below 5,000ppm. Most studies were confounded, results were conflicting. Teams of researchers are hunting to find another problem \u201cdue to CO2\u201d. If there was a strong negative effect of CO2 it would have shown up by now. Instead CO2 is only associated<\/em> with occasional headaches and nausea \u2014 probably because it is high in crowded rooms with little ventilation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

One large review in 2019<\/a> was described as showing CO2 affected people at levels as low as 1,000ppm, but the paper itself  points at the confounding data and uses the words \u201cpossible<\/em>\u201d and \u201cpotential effects<\/em>\u201d and concludes \u201cwe need more studies.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

UPDATE:<\/strong> Commenters Alan Klein and Mr Farnham points out the safety limits for Australian coal miners (NSW) is 1.25% CO2 which is 12,500ppm, and that is for 8 hour shifts. Brief excursions up to 3% (30,000ppm) are acceptable. See comment #17 for more details.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

REFERENCES<\/h4>\n\n\n\n

Lowther, Scott D., Sani Dimitroulopoulou, Kerry Foxall, Clive Shrubsole, Emily Cheek, Britta Gadeberg, and Ovnair Sepai. 2021. \u201cLow Level Carbon Dioxide Indoors\u2014A Pollution Indicator or a Pollutant? A Health-Based Perspective\u201d Environments<\/em> 8, no. 11: 125. https:\/\/doi.org\/10.3390\/environments8110125<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mishra AK, Schiavon S, Wargocki P, Tham KW. Respiratory performance of humans exposed to moderate levels of carbon dioxide.<\/a> Indoor Air. 2021 Sep;31(5):1540-1552. doi: 10.1111\/ina.12823. Epub 2021 May 15. PMID: 33991134.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Rodeheffer CD, Chabal S, Clarke JM, Fothergill DM. Acute Exposure to Low-to-Moderate Carbon Dioxide Levels and Submariner Decision Making<\/a>. Aerosp<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Zhang X, Wargocki P, Lian Z, Thyregod C. Effects of exposure to carbon dioxide and bioeffluents on perceived air quality<\/a>, self-assessed acute health symptoms, and cognitive performance. Indoor Air. 2017 Jan;27(1):47-64. doi: 10.1111\/ina.12284. Epub 2016 Mar 7. PMID: 26825447.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

h\/t to Willie Soon, Marc Morano and Climate Depot.<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Photo: NASA\/Mark T. Vande Hei<\/a> (taking some images of the Russian modules) Jan 2022<\/p>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In the interview with Donald Trump, Elon Musk tried to argue that we ought be limiting carbon dioxide because we are too close to 1,000ppm where people get headaches. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we breath out air at 40,000 ppm fifteen times a minute for our entire lives. If 1,000 ppm gave us a headache or made us nauseous, we\u2019d have to hold our breath every time we kissed someone.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":121246920,"featured_media":339833,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","_crdt_document":"","advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[691830191,691827130,691830192],"class_list":{"0":"post-339825","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","6":"hentry","7":"category-uncategorized","8":"tag-1000-1100-ppm","9":"tag-carbon-dioxide-co2","10":"tag-human-health-effect-i-e-acidosis","12":"fallback-thumbnail"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0-human-health-effect-i.e.-acidosis.jpeg?fit=1000%2C500&ssl=1","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paxLW1-1qp3","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":354954,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=354954","url_meta":{"origin":339825,"position":0},"title":"8 Taiwanese Engineers Determine the Climate Sensitivity to A 300 ppm CO2 Increase Is \u2018Negligibly Small\u2019","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"17\/12\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"A new analysis indicates tripling the atmospheric CO2 concentration from 100 to 400 ppm only produces a 0.3\u00b0C surface warming effect.","rel":"","context":"In \"carbon dioxide (CO\u2082)\"","block_context":{"text":"carbon dioxide (CO\u2082)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=carbon-dioxide-co%e2%82%82"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/00ocean-carbon-cycle.png?fit=1200%2C674&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/00ocean-carbon-cycle.png?fit=1200%2C674&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/00ocean-carbon-cycle.png?fit=1200%2C674&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/00ocean-carbon-cycle.png?fit=1200%2C674&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/12\/00ocean-carbon-cycle.png?fit=1200%2C674&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":394689,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=394689","url_meta":{"origin":339825,"position":1},"title":"On the CO2 Fertilization Effect (real science for EPA)","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"12\/08\/2025","format":false,"excerpt":"\u201cWhat would happen if CO2 doubled from the current approximately 400 ppm in the atmosphere to 800 ppm? 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