{"id":305287,"date":"2024-02-28T18:42:34","date_gmt":"2024-02-28T17:42:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=305287"},"modified":"2024-02-28T18:42:37","modified_gmt":"2024-02-28T17:42:37","slug":"hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-unsalable","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=305287","title":{"rendered":"Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles: UNSALABLE"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"390\" data-attachment-id=\"305289\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=305289\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?fit=2560%2C1381&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"2560,1381\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?fit=723%2C390&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?resize=723%2C390&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-305289\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?resize=1024%2C552&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?resize=300%2C162&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?resize=768%2C414&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?resize=1536%2C829&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?resize=2048%2C1105&amp;ssl=1 2048w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?resize=1200%2C647&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?w=1446&amp;ssl=1 1446w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?w=2169&amp;ssl=1 2169w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From The <a href=\"https:\/\/www.masterresource.org\/hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles\/hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-unsellable\/\">Master Resource<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"301\" data-attachment-id=\"305291\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=305291\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?fit=1920%2C800&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"1920,800\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?fit=723%2C301&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?resize=723%2C301&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-305291\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?resize=1024%2C427&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?resize=300%2C125&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?resize=768%2C320&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?resize=1536%2C640&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?resize=1200%2C500&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?w=1920&amp;ssl=1 1920w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00a40e6c7d63834e22dcc1f64fd320096f.jpg?w=1446&amp;ssl=1 1446w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>By Robert Bradley Jr.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cI\u2019ve been around automotive for a long time, but I\u2019ve NEVER seen incentives that represent 90% of new vehicle price. For a Toyota, 10% is the most I\u2019ve seen. Yet, this is exactly what\u2019s happening for the Toyota Mirai.\u201d (James Carter, below)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">EVs compete against hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles\u2013at least in California where some&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.energy.ca.gov\/data-reports\/energy-almanac\/zero-emission-vehicle-and-infrastructure-statistics\/hydrogen-refueling\">one hundred<\/a>&nbsp;hydrogen dispensing stations are. The range and fill-time of HFCVs is quite competitive with EVs. But it is downhill from there\u2013and a major mess for sellers and buyers. The California Energy Commission (remember&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.masterresource.org\/transportation-policy\/methanol-politics-1980s-1990s\/\">Methanol<\/a>?) has failed again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Consultant&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jamescartertoronto\/\">James Carter<\/a>&nbsp;on LinkedIn&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/posts\/jamescartertoronto_toyota-offers-40000-discount-on-a-car-most-activity-7166564317683724289-Scde?utm_source=share&amp;utm_medium=member_desktop\">summarized<\/a>&nbsp;a recent article in Jalopnik, by Logan Carter,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/jalopnik.com\/toyota-offers-40-000-discount-on-a-car-most-people-can-1851272189?utm_source=flipboard&amp;utm_content=user%2FJalopnik\">Toyota Offers $40,000 Discount On A Car Most People Can\u2019t Fuel Up<\/a>.\u201d His autopsy (verbatim):&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Toyota\u2019s innovative Mirai might just be the best deal on the car market right now, but access to hydrogen fuel is getting harder.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Even with ~$60,000 in total discounts, Mirai is still a BAD deal.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u201cThe $40,000 cash incentive deal is limited to 2023 model year Mirai Limited models, and includes zero percent financing for qualifying buyers. All new Mirais include $15,000 in complimentary fuel at the time of sale.\u201d<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>I\u2019ve been around automotive for a long time, but I\u2019ve NEVER seen incentives that represent 90% of new vehicle price. For a Toyota, 10% is the most I\u2019ve seen. Yet, this is exactly what\u2019s happening for the Toyota Mirai.<br><br><strong>Detail<\/strong><br><br>Vehicle: $66,000, less $40,000 discount<br><br>Finance: $6,500 interest, less $6,500 discount<br><br>Fuel for 5 years \/15,000 miles annually: $45,000, less $15,000<br><br><em>So, in total, this car will cost you $56,000 over 5 years, which is roughly the same as a Model Y Performance mostly charged from home. Perhaps add $5k for interest payments for the Y.<\/em><br><br>Here\u2019s the rub: At the end of 5 years, that Model Y will be worth about $25,000. The Mirai? Likely $2,000 to $3,000, based on history. In other words, that hugely discounted Mirai is still a BAD DEAL.<br><br>Why is it still bad? Because the only Hydrogen stations are in California, and all suffer very irregular supply. In other words, there\u2019s no guarantee you\u2019ll get fuel when you need it. Which, unfortunately, is rule #1\u2026.<br><br><strong>Conclusion: \u201cDriveway Jewelry\u201d<\/strong><br><br>For FCEV, unless you stay within California, road trips are impossible. So, this car is really no more than driveway jewelry, and while it is a good looking car, I personally would still want to go places. And at that task it fails miserably.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Comment<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So-called \u201cgreen hydrogen\u201d is in trouble, big trouble. Free marketeers on one side and environmentalists on the other are critical of government subsidies for greenwashing. ExxonMobil most recently has warned that without enough government subsidies, it will scrap its one-year-old plan to construct the world\u2019s largest\u00a0<a class=\"\" href=\"https:\/\/corporate.exxonmobil.com\/news\/viewpoints\/low-carbon-hydrogen\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">clean hydrogen facility.<\/a>\u00a0Such would be good news all \u2019round\u2013even for ExxonMobil to call costs to date sunk and gear its operations to consumer demand, not transient political fads.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>So-called \u201cgreen hydrogen\u201d is in trouble, big trouble. Free marketeers on one side and environmentalists on the other are critical of government subsidies for greenwashing. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":121246920,"featured_media":305289,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","_crdt_document":"","advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"So-called \u201cgreen hydrogen\u201d is in trouble, big trouble. Free marketeers on one side and environmentalists on the other are critical of government subsidies for greenwashing. ","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[691820972,691818068,691818854,691818370,691827286],"class_list":{"0":"post-305287","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","6":"hentry","7":"category-uncategorized","8":"tag-battery-electric-vehicle-bevs","9":"tag-california","10":"tag-government-subsidies","11":"tag-hydrogen","12":"tag-hydrogen-stations","14":"fallback-thumbnail"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/00AdobeStock_324407848-scaled-1.jpeg?fit=2560%2C1381&ssl=1","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paxLW1-1hpZ","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":301851,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=301851","url_meta":{"origin":305287,"position":0},"title":"Can the Government Create a Green Hydrogen Fuel Industry?","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"15\/02\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"World leaders promote hydrogen as a possible low-emissions fuel for transportation and industry. Nations have announced hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies to support development and supply of hydrogen. But will governments be able to create a new green hydrogen fuel industry?","rel":"","context":"In \"billions of dollars in subsidies\"","block_context":{"text":"billions of dollars in subsidies","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=billions-of-dollars-in-subsidies"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/0-green-hydrgen.jpeg?fit=1200%2C702&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/0-green-hydrgen.jpeg?fit=1200%2C702&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/0-green-hydrgen.jpeg?fit=1200%2C702&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/0-green-hydrgen.jpeg?fit=1200%2C702&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/0-green-hydrgen.jpeg?fit=1200%2C702&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":339680,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=339680","url_meta":{"origin":305287,"position":1},"title":"\u201cGreen\u201d Hydrogen Subsidies Are 1,900x Larger Than What\u2019s Given To Nuclear","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"15\/08\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"The late Charlie Munger was among the most successful investors of the modern era. Munger, who died late last year,\u00a0was the vice chairman at Berkshire Hathaway, the conglomerate headed by his friend and colleague, Warren Buffett. Munger, a native of Omaha, had many pithy sayings, but among his most memorable\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"green hydrogen\"","block_context":{"text":"green hydrogen","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=green-hydrogen"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0hindenburg-1024x821-1.jpg?fit=1024%2C821&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0hindenburg-1024x821-1.jpg?fit=1024%2C821&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0hindenburg-1024x821-1.jpg?fit=1024%2C821&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/0hindenburg-1024x821-1.jpg?fit=1024%2C821&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":328919,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=328919","url_meta":{"origin":305287,"position":2},"title":"The H Stands For Hype","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"14\/05\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"The Sun is mainly made of hydrogen. But there is nothing new under the Sun, and that includes hydrogen.","rel":"","context":"In \"Germany\"","block_context":{"text":"Germany","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=germany"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0bnr-demystifying-hydrogen-power.webp?fit=1200%2C469&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0bnr-demystifying-hydrogen-power.webp?fit=1200%2C469&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0bnr-demystifying-hydrogen-power.webp?fit=1200%2C469&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0bnr-demystifying-hydrogen-power.webp?fit=1200%2C469&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/0bnr-demystifying-hydrogen-power.webp?fit=1200%2C469&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":349386,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=349386","url_meta":{"origin":305287,"position":3},"title":"Investors Cut Mounting Losses By Ditching Grand \u2018Green\u2019 Hydrogen\u00a0Scam","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"29\/10\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Seems like only yesterday that billionaires backing \u2018green\u2019 hydrogen were falling over themselves to gouge subsidies out of taxpayers in order to create the next \u2018big thing\u2019 in energy. Then, all of a sudden, the big players started treating their \u2018green\u2019 hydrogen plans like diseased strangers.","rel":"","context":"In \"Australia\"","block_context":{"text":"Australia","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=australia"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/0Screenshot-2024-10-29-081855.png?fit=1200%2C672&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/0Screenshot-2024-10-29-081855.png?fit=1200%2C672&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/0Screenshot-2024-10-29-081855.png?fit=1200%2C672&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/0Screenshot-2024-10-29-081855.png?fit=1200%2C672&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/0Screenshot-2024-10-29-081855.png?fit=1200%2C672&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":365194,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=365194","url_meta":{"origin":305287,"position":4},"title":"First Hydrogen CfDs\u00a0Awarded","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"06\/02\/2025","format":false,"excerpt":"The first three CfDs have been announced for the Hydrogen Allocation Round 1.","rel":"","context":"In \"CFDs\"","block_context":{"text":"CFDs","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=cfds"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/0AdobeStock_210211160.jpeg?fit=1200%2C801&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/0AdobeStock_210211160.jpeg?fit=1200%2C801&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/0AdobeStock_210211160.jpeg?fit=1200%2C801&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/0AdobeStock_210211160.jpeg?fit=1200%2C801&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/0AdobeStock_210211160.jpeg?fit=1200%2C801&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":393294,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=393294","url_meta":{"origin":305287,"position":5},"title":"Difficult times for hydrogen","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"06\/08\/2025","format":false,"excerpt":"In recent months, several large hydrogen projects in Europe have been cancelled, postponed or greatly downsized, mainly due to high costs, uncertain demand and delayed subsidies.","rel":"","context":"In 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