{"id":275703,"date":"2023-08-26T18:14:10","date_gmt":"2023-08-26T16:14:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=275703"},"modified":"2023-08-26T18:14:13","modified_gmt":"2023-08-26T16:14:13","slug":"mythbusting-theres-no-way-wind-solar-are-cheaper-than-coal-gas","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=275703","title":{"rendered":"Mythbusting: There\u2019s No Way Wind &#038; Solar Are Cheaper Than Coal &#038;\u00a0Gas"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"482\" data-attachment-id=\"275719\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=275719\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?fit=2560%2C1707&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"2560,1707\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"00721-F2-1-scaled-1\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?fit=723%2C482&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?resize=723%2C482&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-275719\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?resize=300%2C200&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?resize=768%2C512&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?resize=1536%2C1024&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?resize=2048%2C1366&amp;ssl=1 2048w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?resize=1200%2C800&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?w=1446&amp;ssl=1 1446w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-1.jpg?w=2169&amp;ssl=1 2169w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From <a href=\"http:\/\/stopthesethings.com\/\">STOP THESE THINGS<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"458\" data-attachment-id=\"275718\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=275718\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00FsKM_lsXwAEEl3r.jpg?fit=1200%2C759&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"1200,759\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"00FsKM_lsXwAEEl3r\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00FsKM_lsXwAEEl3r.jpg?fit=723%2C458&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00FsKM_lsXwAEEl3r.jpg?resize=723%2C458&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-275718\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00FsKM_lsXwAEEl3r.jpg?resize=1024%2C648&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00FsKM_lsXwAEEl3r.jpg?resize=300%2C190&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00FsKM_lsXwAEEl3r.jpg?resize=768%2C486&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00FsKM_lsXwAEEl3r.jpg?w=1200&amp;ssl=1 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/stopthesethings.files.wordpress.com\/2023\/01\/turbine-fire-collapse.png\"><br><\/a>The fact that every country that\u2019s increased reliance on wind and solar is suffering rocketing power prices is incontrovertible. And that simple relationship puts paid to the myth that wind and solar are cheaper than coal and gas, principally because it\u2019s heavily subsidised wind and solar that are (occasionally) displacing coal and gas-fired power. When we say \u2018occasionally\u2019, we mean those occasions when the sun is shining in a cloudless, bright blue sky and the wind is blowing at a healthy 8m\/s.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of course, making direct cost comparisons between generation sources that are thoroughly uncontrollable because their output depends upon the weather or time-of-day is a nonsense. It\u2019s one of the points made by Alex Epstein in this marvellous mythbusting piece below.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>The ultimate debunking of \u201csolar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels.\u201d<\/strong><br>Energy Talking Points<br>Alex Epstein<br>20 July 2023<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Myth: Solar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Truth: Solar and wind are only cheaper than fossil fuels in at most a small fraction of situations. For the overwhelming majority of the world\u2019s energy needs, solar and wind are either completely unable to replace fossil fuels or are far more expensive.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We incessantly hear claims that solar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The World Economic Forum characterizes \u201crenewables\u201d as \u201cthe world\u2019s cheapest source of energy\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cRenewables: Cheapest form of power\u201d says the UN.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">All such claims involve a dangerous fallacy I call \u201cfalse generalization.\u201d[<a href=\"https:\/\/alexepstein.substack.com\/p\/the-ultimate-debunking-of-solar-and\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">1<\/a>]<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Why we should be suspicious of the pervasive claim that \u201csolar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Observe that \u201csolar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels\u201d is usually invoked, not to encourage competition but to justify coercive government policies to punish fossil fuel use and favor solar and wind.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Observe that the same people claiming \u201csolar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels\u201d moved heaven and earth to demand at minimum hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies under the \u201cInflation Reduction Act\u201d for these supposedly \u201ccheaper forms of energy.\u201d[<a href=\"https:\/\/energynow.com\/2023\/04\/commentary-the-limitless-hidden-costs-of-the-ira-alex-epstein\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">2<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>On its face, justifying favoritism toward solar and wind by invoking their cheapness is highly suspicious. If they\u2019re cheaper, why do they need coercive policies to throttle their fossil-fueled competitors (e.g., opposing fossil fuel investment, production, and pipelines) and reward solar and wind?<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>If a company has a TV set that\u2019s as good as others, but cheaper, they win by selling their cheaper TVs on the market.<br>They don\u2019t ask government to ban other TVs, to mandate their TV, or to give them hundreds of billions of dollars.<br>Truly cheaper products don\u2019t need preferences.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The simple reason that advocates of solar and wind who claim they are cheaper than fossil fuels aren\u2019t willing to outcompete fossil fuels in reality but instead demand massive government favoritism is that in the vast majority of circumstances solar and wind are not actually cheaper.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>If solar and wind were cheaper, much-hated fossil fuel use wouldn\u2019t still be growing<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>That solar and wind aren\u2019t actually cheaper than fossil fuels should be obvious from the fact that despite enormous cultural and political hostility toward fossil fuels that makes fossil fuels artificially expensive, fossil fuel use is still growing.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Notably, fossil fuel growth is centered in the places that care most about cheap energy, above all China\u2014which is using record amounts of coal to produce the solar panels and wind turbines we use. If solar and wind were cheaper they\u2019d use solar and wind to produce solar and wind.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F93aaff25-0f28-48b9-80c1-a0e7dcfa6864_1600x1043.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">3<\/a>]<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"478\" data-attachment-id=\"275708\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=275708\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0energy-consumption-by-source-china.png?fit=926%2C612&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"926,612\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"0energy-consumption-by-source-china\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0energy-consumption-by-source-china.png?fit=723%2C478&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0energy-consumption-by-source-china.png?resize=723%2C478&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-275708\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0energy-consumption-by-source-china.png?w=926&amp;ssl=1 926w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0energy-consumption-by-source-china.png?resize=300%2C198&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0energy-consumption-by-source-china.png?resize=768%2C508&amp;ssl=1 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>When China is concerned about its grid reliability, it starts building more coal power plants, not more solar and wind farms, to boost supply. In late 2022, the Chinese government permitted about 2 new coal plants a week.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F86132257-10ce-4dc8-8324-b0fd085e4efc_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">4<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>China, despite being the world\u2019s leading producer of solar and wind (using coal) is also using record amounts of oil. Why not just use solar and wind instead, since \u201csolar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels\u201d?<br>Because solar and wind aren\u2019t cheaper. In most cases, they\u2019re totally incapable of replacing oil.[<a href=\"https:\/\/www.energyinst.org\/statistical-review\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">5<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>To deny the blatant reality that solar and wind cannot outcompete fossil fuels, opponents of fossil fuels use a fallacy I\u2019ve never seen anyone identify in this context: \u201cfalse generalization\u201d\u2014taking something that\u2019s true in rare circumstances and falsely generalizing it to all circumstances.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>The fallacy of false generalization<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Claims that solar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels take rare use-cases in which solar and wind are, or might be, cheaper and then falsely generalize that they are always cheaper**\u2014even though they\u2019re usually expensive or impossible.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>When discussing \u201cenergy prices\u201d we must recognize that \u201cenergy\u201d refers to myriad specific use-cases involving different\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Types of machines<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Reliability requirements<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Locations<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Scales<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>For the **vast majority of use-cases solar and wind can\u2019t compete** with fossil fuels.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Types of machines, solar and wind vs. fossil fuels<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>For most types of machines we use today\u2014which burn fossil fuels directly for transportation, industrial heat, or residential heat\u2014solar and wind can\u2019t come close to competing with fossil fuels. Yet they are portrayed as generally \u201ccheaper\u201d!<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>While it is very common to use the terms \u201cenergy\u201d and \u201celectricity\u201d interchangeably, the fact is that the vast majority of machines in the world today don\u2019t run on electricity\u2014they run on the direct burning of fossil fuels, because that is the only or cheapest way to run them.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The top 4 types of machines, by energy use, are: transportation machines that burn fossil fuels, all machines that use electricity\u2014using multiple fuels, (including 60% fossil fuels globally), industrial heat machines that burn fossil fuels, and residential\/commercial heat machines that burn fossil fuels.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F2977d086-ce54-42e4-b06b-5f8844df8f7c_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">6<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The reason the vast majority of the world\u2019s machines today use the direct burning of fossil fuels, instead of electricity (from any source) is cost-effectiveness. Direct burning is the only way to power many transport machines, and the cheapest way to power many heating machines.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Oil, the densest fossil fuel, is a highly-concentrated yet stable energy source. This makes it uniquely good for transport, which benefits from as much energy per pound as possible. In some cases, e.g., airplanes and cargo ships, there\u2019s no real electric alternative to oil at any cost.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Solar and wind advocates sometimes promote battery-powered ships and airplanes, dishonestly ignoring the fact that these are costly showcases incapable of cost-effective transcontinental flights and long-distance transport, which is the lifeblood of our global economy.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdfea1e24-2949-4d10-beb0-e969470956e0_3200x1800.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">7<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>For airplanes and cargo ships, solar and wind aren\u2019t just not cheaper than fossil fuels,\u201d they are infinitely expensive because they cannot do what fossil fuels can do.<br>E.g., they can\u2019t fly 200 people from LA to London or move 400 million lbs of cargo from Korea to Brazil at 25 MPH.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>While the high levels of heat industry requires (e.g., for steel-making) and the lower levels of heat residential or commercial areas require can be provided by electricity, it is often far cheaper to burn fossil fuels directly vs. going from fuel to electricity to heat.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Even if solar and wind were somewhat cheaper than fossil fuels at providing electricity\u2014which they rarely are, due to unreliability\u2014they still would be expensive or impossible as replacements for fossil fuel heating and transport.<br>Yet they\u2019re portrayed as generally \u201ccheaper\u201d!<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Anyone who promotes the idea of solar and wind being generally cheaper than fossil fuels for \u201cenergy\u201d as such\u2014when solar and wind electricity is obviously expensive and\/or impossible for fossil fuels\u2019 non-electricity uses\u2014is ignorant and\/or incompetent and\/or dishonest, and should be ignored.**[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffbb27fbc-4e04-408d-8359-6a1ad3ecc877_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">8<\/a>]<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Reliability requirements, solar and wind vs. fossil fuels<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Solar and wind clearly can\u2019t outcompete fossil fuels for transport and heat.<br>And solar and wind can\u2019t even outcompete fossil fuels for most electricity due to reliability requirements.<br>Yet the irrelevant price of unreliable solar and wind is used to claim cheapness!<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Reliability is the ability to provide energy when needed, in the amount needed. While some energy uses have relatively low reliability requirements\u2014e.g., a pool heater doesn\u2019t need to work at an exact time\u2014most have high reliability requirements. Including most electricity use.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>While someone living a very modest off-grid lifestyle might not have rigorous reliability requirements for electricity, a modern electric grid absolutely does. To operate safely the grid must precisely, reliably control the supply of electricity to meet ever-changing demand.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Because reliability is paramount to electricity, when comparing electricity prices\u2014e.g., fossil fuels vs. solar and wind\u2014we must only compare prices for reliable electricity. Yet it\u2019s common to compare the price of reliable fossil fuel electricity to unreliable solar and wind electricity.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Many instances of \u201csolar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels\u201d not only ignore the non-electricity uses where solar and wind are totally uncompetitive, they use a bogus metric called \u201cLevelized Cost of Energy\u201d (LCOE) which by its own definition ignores the issue of reliability![<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3dad00d2-9104-4324-94c0-1c5deef935ad_2298x1742.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">9<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The constantly-used Lazard \u201cLevelized Cost of Energy\u201d (LCOE) analysis explicitly says \u201cThis analysis does not take into account\u2026 reliability-related considerations.\u201dSuch an analysis is worthless. But it is used widely to misrepresent solar and wind as cheap.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F879e23cf-ad0f-409a-8c26-a3a442d13d62_3200x1800.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">10<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The basic cost problem with solar and wind is their inherent unreliability. To use them to deliver reliable electricity we need to also pay for a reliable life-support grid (e.g., gas plants). This is very often wasteful; it\u2019s usually cheaper just to pay for a reliable grid.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>When we look at large regions that use solar and wind a lot, we see a trend of price increases and\/or reliability decreases, because solar and wind add costs to the reliable grids needed to support them\u2014and if you try to save money by shrinking the reliable grid you get reliability problems.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F0bf99990-c748-473d-a87d-01b451891f86_1920x1080.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">11<\/a>]<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"409\" data-attachment-id=\"275710\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=275710\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0price-when-renewables.png?fit=932%2C527&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"932,527\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"0price-when-renewables\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0price-when-renewables.png?fit=723%2C409&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0price-when-renewables.png?resize=723%2C409&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-275710\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0price-when-renewables.png?w=932&amp;ssl=1 932w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0price-when-renewables.png?resize=300%2C170&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/0price-when-renewables.png?resize=768%2C434&amp;ssl=1 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Instead of honestly looking at the full cost of solar and wind compared to fossil fuels for providing reliable electricity\u2014which looks very bad for solar and wind most of the time\u2014opponents of fossil fuels claim \u201csolar and wind are cheaper\u201d by comparing the cost of unreliable solar and wind with reliable fossil fuel electricity. Happily, the energy community is starting to recognize the fallacy of conflating the price of reliable fossil fuels with the price of unreliable solar and wind. Even \u201cLCOE\u201d villain Lazard is now pointing out that solar and wind plus even modest storage are more costly than fossil fuels.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7446f73a-2c11-46f2-9ec0-c53864458045_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">12<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>While it\u2019s good that some energy leaders are questioning price comparisons between fossil fuels and unreliable solar and wind, they are still not recognizing the huge full costs of solar and wind given that they can go near-zero at any given time and thus require near-100% life support.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>In the rare situations where electricity reliability requirements are low, solar and wind can be cheaper than fossil fuels. But it\u2019s deeply dishonest to falsely generalize \u201csolar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels\u201d given that for most reliability requirements solar and wind are far more expensive.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Location, solar and wind vs. fossil fuels<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Even by solar and wind\u2019s low standards of versatility and reliability, they perform poorly in most locations. Yet the sunniest or windiest areas are used to make general rosy claims about solar and wind.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Every use of energy takes place in a certain location and was produced by processes taking place in multiple locations.<br>Location always affects the cost of energy. E.g., nearby or piped natural gas is often the cheapest solution while ocean-transported gas often isn\u2019t.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Because location has such a significant effect on the price of energy, one must be cautious in generalizing from a source of energy being cheapest in one location to it being cheapest everywhere. E.g., natural gas power has often been cheaper than coal in the US but not in Asia.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Solar and wind are incredibly location-sensitive. Although nowhere do they have the reliability of fossil fuels, let alone versatility, they perform at their best in consistently sunny (e.g., desert-like areas including Southern California) and windy areas (such as Iowa or West Texas).[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F439f2e74-0384-472e-bd55-00b69bef595d_1600x900.jpeg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">13<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>It\u2019s easy to underestimate how rare the best solar and wind resources are, especially in the US where we have a disproportionate amount of the world\u2019s best. But observe the many regions of the world that are weak in one or the other, sometimes both (e.g., much of South America).[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F3b6473a2-fe92-4cbe-8470-9b9b2e22aa5b_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">14<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>While most forms of energy are highly location-sensitive in where they originate (e.g., many places lack oil and coal) many are dense enough that they can be transported fairly easily to most places around the world. But not sunlight and wind, which aren\u2019t portable fuels.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Transporting solar and wind electricity from source to consumption often requires expensive, long-distance transmission lines that involve a lot of difficult development\u2014made especially difficult by \u201cgreen\u201d activists\u2014and that lose significant energy over distance.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F485ed25c-35fa-4767-bd8d-b8d663a05fef_1356x760.jpeg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">15<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Solar and wind also have a location challenge of requiring large amounts of land due to their low \u201cenergy density.\u201d This makes them very problematic for large cities, where they can\u2019t possibly support the population.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Solar and wind\u2019s large land requirements, which often exist in scenic places, attract opposition from potential neighbors and from the impact-hating \u201cgreen\u201d movement. This is captured by Robert Bryce\u2019s \u201cRenewable Rejection Database.\u201d[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9f212419-2330-451d-abb0-f5c965a3f7f9_1600x898.jpeg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">16<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Many \u201csolar and wind are cheaper\u201d claims, in addition to only looking at electricity and ignoring reliability, take prices or performance from places solar and wind perform best\u2014e.g., Southern California or Iowa\u2014and falsely generalize that to the vast majority of places that lack these solar and wind resources.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc53a1727-2462-48d9-bd2b-83034906bc01_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">17<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Whenever you hear someone rave about Southern California or Iowa or West Texas in making some general laudatory claim about solar and wind, you can be sure that the person is trying to dupe you through false generalization from one location to every location.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Note that false generalization from one location to all locations is also common for geothermal energy. Geothermal is successfully used in Iceland as a major source of heat and electricity. This is often falsely generalized to claim that it can be used everywhere.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Geothermal is used dominantly in Iceland because Iceland is uniquely conducive to it. It has an unusual combination of:<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">1) heat reservoirs providing heat or hot steam relatively near the surface.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">2) a very small population<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Most places don\u2019t have this combination.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F602f6cd5-0b74-4cc1-99b6-030504b95484_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">18<\/a>]<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Scale, solar and wind vs. fossil fuels<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>In addition to all their other problems, solar and wind have mining requirements that make them expensive to scale quickly. Yet today\u2019s solar and wind prices are falsely generalized to be the same or lower if solar and wind scale on a crazy \u201cnet-zero-by-2050\u201d timetable.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Whenever we talk about the price of energy, we need to recognize that the price of energy can change dramatically depending on the scale it is being used on. Sometimes larger scales can reduce prices (economies of scale) and sometimes larger scales can increase prices (diseconomies of scale).<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>A classic example of a form of energy that goes up in price past a certain scale is wood. Wood is for many people the cheapest source of energy because it is naturally available in their surroundings. However, once use exceeds the scale of naturally-available wood, new wood requires more expensive tree planting and harvesting, and the price goes up.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Some aspects of solar and wind scale well. In particular, as more firms have worked on producing solar and wind in larger quantities, the efficiency of producing panels and turbines has increased. This has been one factor in driving (unreliable) solar and wind prices down.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Given that solar and wind are advocated as the main sources of energy to be used to attempt to replace fossil fuels on a 2050 timetable, they face an enormous, even catastrophic scale problem: the problem of scaling on an artificially fast timetable.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Scaling on an artificially fast timetable is a major \u201cdiseconomy of scale.\u201d When a government or other entity demands that something be available in much larger quantities well before markets and infrastructure can develop to do so cheaply, shortages and price increases are inevitable.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Plans to scale solar and wind involve more than doubling the supply of half a dozen major mined materials per decade. For perspective, I know of no example, ever, of even one major mined mineral doubling that fast, even with pro-development governments\u2014let alone today\u2019s anti-development governments.[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fd8be5e0d-50ad-40ee-bc35-4d04aae9a3b1_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">19<\/a>]<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Even relatively mild increases in demand for critical minerals have led to scaling issues and cost increases in recent years\u2014reversing a trend of falling prices that solar and wind advocates pretended would last forever. What will rapid scaling and \u201cgreen\u201d anti-mining policies do?[<a href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F87facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">20<\/a>]<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"407\" data-attachment-id=\"275714\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=275714\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.jpg?fit=1456%2C819&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"1456,819\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;1&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.jpg?fit=723%2C407&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.jpg?resize=723%2C407&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-275714\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.jpg?resize=1024%2C576&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.jpg?resize=300%2C169&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.jpg?resize=768%2C432&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.jpg?resize=1200%2C675&amp;ssl=1 1200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/087facead-3ac5-4d3b-ab58-ce3a59d711c2_1600x900.jpg?w=1456&amp;ssl=1 1456w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Given the absurdly fast, arbitrary artificial timetable being suggested for solar and wind\u2014net-zero by 2050\u2014one cannot talk about solar and wind prices without acknowledging the catastrophic scaling price increases involved. And yet advocates treat today\u2019s prices as guaranteed to decline!<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Assuming today\u2019s solar and wind prices will stay the same or decrease, regardless of how quickly they are scaled, is yet another false generalization by their advocates: **falsely generalizing pricing from a current small scale to a very rapid large scale.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Summary<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Solar and wind advocates falsely claim \u201csolar and wind are cheaper\u201d by falsely generalizing from the small minority of situations in which this is true to the vast majority where it\u2019s completely false due to machine type, reliability requirements, location, and\/or scale.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Solar and wind advocates love to take a rare energy use-case in which solar and wind may be cheaper\u2014such as powering midday and afternoon air-conditioning in Dubai\u2014and falsely generalize that \u201csolar and wind are cheaper\u201d for all machines, reliability requirements, and locations on a global scale.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Saying \u201csolar and wind are cheaper\u201d because they might be cheaper at powering midday and afternoon air-conditioning in Dubai is like a CEO saying \u201cteenage labor is cheaper\u201d because it can fill some mailroom positions.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yet such false generalization is driving our energy policy.<br><a href=\"https:\/\/alexepstein.substack.com\/p\/the-ultimate-debunking-of-solar-and\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><em><strong>Energy Talking Points<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"723\" height=\"446\" data-attachment-id=\"275716\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=275716\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/image-979.png?fit=726%2C448&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"726,448\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"image-979\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/image-979.png?fit=723%2C446&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/image-979.png?resize=723%2C446&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-275716\" style=\"width:758px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/image-979.png?w=726&amp;ssl=1 726w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/image-979.png?resize=300%2C185&amp;ssl=1 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 723px) 100vw, 723px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The fact that every country that\u2019s increased reliance on wind and solar is suffering rocketing power prices is incontrovertible. And that simple relationship puts paid to the myth that wind and solar are cheaper than coal and gas, principally because it\u2019s heavily subsidised wind and solar that are (occasionally) displacing coal and gas-fired power.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":121246920,"featured_media":275720,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","_crdt_document":"","advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[691818130,691818508,691819121,691818108],"class_list":{"0":"post-275703","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","6":"hentry","7":"category-uncategorized","8":"tag-renewables","9":"tag-subsidised","10":"tag-wind-and-solar-power","11":"tag-world-economic-forum","13":"fallback-thumbnail"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/00721-F2-1-scaled-2.jpg?fit=2560%2C1707&ssl=1","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paxLW1-19IP","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":219247,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=219247","url_meta":{"origin":275703,"position":0},"title":"Power Consumers Become Victims of Suicidal Subsidised Wind &#038; Solar Push","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"17\/09\/2022","format":false,"excerpt":"In Europe, wind and solar \u2018powered\u2019 Germans and Danes are punished by Europe\u2019s highest power prices \u2013 around double that paid by the nuclear-powered French.","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/0Screenshot-2022-09-17-115143.png?fit=867%2C569&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/0Screenshot-2022-09-17-115143.png?fit=867%2C569&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/0Screenshot-2022-09-17-115143.png?fit=867%2C569&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/0Screenshot-2022-09-17-115143.png?fit=867%2C569&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":336654,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=336654","url_meta":{"origin":275703,"position":1},"title":"The Big \u2018Renewable\u2019 Energy Lie: Not Cheap, Not Clean, Not\u00a0Green","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"16\/07\/2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Even the proles have worked out that wind and solar aren\u2019t cheap, they aren\u2019t clean and they most certainly aren\u2019t green. Their rocketing power bills are enough evidence to dispose of the \u2018cheap\u2019 wind and solar myth. Millions of tonnes of spent solar panels and toxic wind turbine blades being\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Australian economy\"","block_context":{"text":"Australian economy","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=australian-economy"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/green-hydrogen-hype.png?fit=1200%2C630&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":213103,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=213103","url_meta":{"origin":275703,"position":2},"title":"Reliable wind and solar are not cheap","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"11\/08\/2022","format":false,"excerpt":"Likewise, there are two types of wind generator, depending on where they are. Offshore wind towers are out in the ocean, which makes them expensive. Onshore wind is the familiar multi-tower wind complex on dry land.","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/image-386.png?fit=848%2C565&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/image-386.png?fit=848%2C565&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/image-386.png?fit=848%2C565&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/image-386.png?fit=848%2C565&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":244166,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=244166","url_meta":{"origin":275703,"position":3},"title":"No, renewables are not cheaper","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"19\/02\/2023","format":false,"excerpt":"A return to typical Queensland summer conditions this month has seen large electricity consumers\u00a0paid to use less\u00a0and the electricity market operator (AEMO) scrambling to balance the grid and prevent blackouts.","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/image-463.png?fit=1200%2C843&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/image-463.png?fit=1200%2C843&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/image-463.png?fit=1200%2C843&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/image-463.png?fit=1200%2C843&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/image-463.png?fit=1200%2C843&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":292326,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=292326","url_meta":{"origin":275703,"position":4},"title":"China &amp; India Reject West\u2019s Suicidal Wind &amp; Solar\u00a0Obsession","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"22\/12\/2023","format":false,"excerpt":"While Europe, the UK, US and Australia are busily destroying their energy supplies, China and India are building coal-fired and nuclear power plants, hand over first \u2013 providing reliable and cheap power to industry, businesses and households is central to their economic development.","rel":"","context":"In \"BBC\"","block_context":{"text":"BBC","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=bbc"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/12\/OIG-2023-11-26T103109.951-1.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/12\/OIG-2023-11-26T103109.951-1.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/12\/OIG-2023-11-26T103109.951-1.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/12\/OIG-2023-11-26T103109.951-1.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":195397,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=195397","url_meta":{"origin":275703,"position":5},"title":"Wind &#038; Solar Subsidies: High Time to End the Never-Ending Story of Wasted $Billions","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"11\/04\/2022","format":false,"excerpt":"Death and taxes are certainties, so too the wind and solar industry\u2019s critical dependence on massive and endless subsidies. Those pushing wind and solar keep telling us that the power they produce is \u2018free\u2019 and getting cheaper all the time. Every so often, rent seekers and their political enablers are\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/0turbine-demolition1.png?fit=1200%2C633&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/0turbine-demolition1.png?fit=1200%2C633&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/0turbine-demolition1.png?fit=1200%2C633&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/0turbine-demolition1.png?fit=1200%2C633&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/0turbine-demolition1.png?fit=1200%2C633&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/275703","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/121246920"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=275703"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/275703\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":275721,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/275703\/revisions\/275721"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/275720"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=275703"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=275703"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=275703"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}