{"id":270980,"date":"2023-08-02T12:15:56","date_gmt":"2023-08-02T10:15:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=270980"},"modified":"2023-08-02T12:15:59","modified_gmt":"2023-08-02T10:15:59","slug":"the-guardians-ocean-circulation-problem","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=270980","title":{"rendered":"The Guardian\u2019s (ocean) circulation problem"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n\n\n\n

From Net Zero Watch<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A review of the Guardian\u2019s habitual Gulf Stream misreporting.<\/h5>\n\n\n\n

Is there no loyalty among climate extremists? The Guardian makes a mistake about the fundamental difference between the Gulf Stream and the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) and suddenly everyone is on its case, some accusing it of sloppy reporting, others demanding a correction of its fake news, (which didn\u2019t come.) To be fair it wasn\u2019t just the Guardian \u2013 the BBC, CNN and others also got it wrong.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The slowdown or possible collapse of Atlantic currents was everywhere on the internet. We are\u00a0heading for a collapse<\/a>, said CNN,\u00a0<\/em>Warming could push the Atlantic past a \u2018tipping point\u2019<\/a>\u00a0said the New York Times,\u00a0\u2018near collapse,<\/a><\/em>\u00a0added the Washington Post.\u00a0Is a mega ocean current about to close down<\/a><\/em>, asked the Scientific American?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The Gulf Stream \u2013 which brings warm water to North West Europe \u2013 is not the same as the AMOC. They are two fundamentally different currents. Unless the Earth ceases to be a globe, ceases to have oceans and ceases to turn \u2013 something that even the Guardian hasn\u2019t yet alarmed us about \u2013 the Gulf Stream\u00a0will be with us.<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The AMOC is important for climate because it is the large-scale overturning motion in the Atlantic. It has demonstrated instabilities in the past, especially during the last Ice Age due to large influxes of fresh water. It has weakened over at least the past 100 years, possibly the last thousand years. Some believe this weakening, or at least its most recent activity, is due to human influence, but that is mostly conjecture as we do not understand the decadal and centennial natural variability of the AMOC, let alone longer-term ocean cycles. Standard climate models maintain that the risk of the AMOC collapsing is small.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s not as though the Guardian hasn\u2019t been fighting on the alarmist front using ocean currents many, many time before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Last year<\/a>\u00a0it told us that we are on the brink, or may even have passed, five \u2018disastrous\u2019 tipping points; the collapse of Greenland\u2019s ice cap, the melting of permafrost, changes to the great northern forests, the loss of mountain glaciers and of course, the collapse of the AMOC.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n


<\/a>Two years ago<\/a>\u00a0the same journalist told us the same story \u2026 that \u2018scientists had spotted warning signs of Gulf Stream collapse\u2019 \u2013 again confusing the Gulf Stream with the AMOC.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

The tipping points also make another appearance as they may have been crossed two years previously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The same journalist got the Gulf Stream and the\u00a0AMOC mixed up 2018<\/a>, saying that the Gulf Stream was at its weakest in 1600 years. He added that it threw into question alarmist predictions of a looming catastrophic collapse as it would take centuries to occur. The Guardian claimed that it was now 15% weaker than it was around 400 AD, and humans were responsible for a significant part of that weakening.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The latest surge in the Guardian\u2019s habitual Gulf Stream misreporting was based on\u00a0two Danish researcher<\/a>\u00a0who announced a sharp weakening of ocean currents around the North Atlantic, predicting \u201ca collapse of the AMOC to occur around mid-century under the current scenario of future emissions,\u201d or even as soon as two year time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This research was not based on climate models but based on so-called instability research in which a system, in this case the AMOC, exhibits instability and more variability just before it reaches a so-called\u00a0tipping point<\/em>\u00a0and transitions to a new state.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Given the lack of understanding of its current dynamics and its past variability, the public would be well advised to take worst case predictions with a pinch of salt.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Feedback: david.whitehouse@netzerowatch.org<\/p>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Is there no loyalty among climate extremists? The Guardian makes a mistake about the fundamental difference between the Gulf Stream and the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) and suddenly everyone is on its case, some accusing it of sloppy reporting, others demanding a correction of its fake news, (which didn\u2019t come.) To be fair it wasn\u2019t just the Guardian \u2013 the BBC, CNN and others also got it wrong.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":121246920,"featured_media":270988,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","_crdt_document":"","advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[691821538,691819743,691821383,691818262,691821537],"class_list":{"0":"post-270980","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","6":"hentry","7":"category-uncategorized","8":"tag-amoc","9":"tag-climate-propaganda","10":"tag-gulf-stream","11":"tag-the-guardian","12":"tag-the-gulf-stream","14":"fallback-thumbnail"},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/08\/OIG-98-1.jpeg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paxLW1-18uE","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":282169,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=282169","url_meta":{"origin":270980,"position":0},"title":"AMOC: A Non-Tipping point","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"10\/06\/2023","format":false,"excerpt":"From Watts Up With That? Gabriel Oxenstierna, Ph.D The Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) is one of Earth\u2019s major ocean circulation systems\u2014it redistributes heat on our planet and is a key driver of climate variability. There is a northward transport of heat throughout the Atlantic, comprising one quarter of the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC)\"","block_context":{"text":"Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=atlantic-meridional-overturning-circulation-amoc"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/0PBwTwPhNHqHE294xqxrPed-1200-80.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/0PBwTwPhNHqHE294xqxrPed-1200-80.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/0PBwTwPhNHqHE294xqxrPed-1200-80.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/0PBwTwPhNHqHE294xqxrPed-1200-80.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/0PBwTwPhNHqHE294xqxrPed-1200-80.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":409841,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=409841","url_meta":{"origin":270980,"position":1},"title":"Climate Tipping Points \u201cMay Already Have Arrived\u201d Claims New Report \u2013 Just in Time for COP30","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"10\/23\/2025","format":false,"excerpt":"Also last week, the\u00a0Guardian\u00a0commented on the Green Blob-funded \u2018Global Tipping Points Report 2025\u2019 and reported its contention that the planet\u2019s first catastrophic\u00a0climate tipping point\u00a0had been reached with \u201ccoral reefs facing widespread dieback\u201d. About time too,\u00a0Guardianistas might have felt. In June 1999, the newspaper\u2019s veteran eco loon George Monbiot wrote that\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Atlantic Meridian Overturning Circulation (AMOC)\"","block_context":{"text":"Atlantic Meridian Overturning Circulation (AMOC)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=atlantic-meridian-overturning-circulation-amoc"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/AQNIiPWA5quDrKMQz2bal3TuHuDp7e0tf4iiTfnd5Z1b7sUFlQa_orv5MworQlv_khwK8d1VXWJD1RP5MZlUOCwc6iIYj50JNIDSy4sv3wxFXOZ9CdpOjcKDj69CA38SaZk23CHBz5QgnWG6JrmPj1BcsRUafA-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/AQNIiPWA5quDrKMQz2bal3TuHuDp7e0tf4iiTfnd5Z1b7sUFlQa_orv5MworQlv_khwK8d1VXWJD1RP5MZlUOCwc6iIYj50JNIDSy4sv3wxFXOZ9CdpOjcKDj69CA38SaZk23CHBz5QgnWG6JrmPj1BcsRUafA-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/AQNIiPWA5quDrKMQz2bal3TuHuDp7e0tf4iiTfnd5Z1b7sUFlQa_orv5MworQlv_khwK8d1VXWJD1RP5MZlUOCwc6iIYj50JNIDSy4sv3wxFXOZ9CdpOjcKDj69CA38SaZk23CHBz5QgnWG6JrmPj1BcsRUafA-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/AQNIiPWA5quDrKMQz2bal3TuHuDp7e0tf4iiTfnd5Z1b7sUFlQa_orv5MworQlv_khwK8d1VXWJD1RP5MZlUOCwc6iIYj50JNIDSy4sv3wxFXOZ9CdpOjcKDj69CA38SaZk23CHBz5QgnWG6JrmPj1BcsRUafA-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/AQNIiPWA5quDrKMQz2bal3TuHuDp7e0tf4iiTfnd5Z1b7sUFlQa_orv5MworQlv_khwK8d1VXWJD1RP5MZlUOCwc6iIYj50JNIDSy4sv3wxFXOZ9CdpOjcKDj69CA38SaZk23CHBz5QgnWG6JrmPj1BcsRUafA-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C1200&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":414279,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=414279","url_meta":{"origin":270980,"position":2},"title":"\u00a0Is The Gulf Stream Really Collapsing? Debunking Another Climate Doomsday Claim","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"11\/22\/2025","format":false,"excerpt":"The idea that global warming could paradoxically shut down the Gulf Stream, plunging Europe into a new cold spell\u2014a scenario popularized by the film\u00a0The Day After Tomorrow\u2014is a powerful narrative.","rel":"","context":"In \"Arctic Ice\"","block_context":{"text":"Arctic Ice","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=arctic-ice"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/AQMJvBPBebog8Xm49_ERkrVz9uWa4J5OdkYLJThsovaKBw055yTJnhg5mKHmbygBlnRZF12QFuK21htLK4u7vMobZbPFYdbf-a4yvSDfNXNJ6yBnujkF1uDqJXQYgg.jpeg?fit=1200%2C649&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/AQMJvBPBebog8Xm49_ERkrVz9uWa4J5OdkYLJThsovaKBw055yTJnhg5mKHmbygBlnRZF12QFuK21htLK4u7vMobZbPFYdbf-a4yvSDfNXNJ6yBnujkF1uDqJXQYgg.jpeg?fit=1200%2C649&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/AQMJvBPBebog8Xm49_ERkrVz9uWa4J5OdkYLJThsovaKBw055yTJnhg5mKHmbygBlnRZF12QFuK21htLK4u7vMobZbPFYdbf-a4yvSDfNXNJ6yBnujkF1uDqJXQYgg.jpeg?fit=1200%2C649&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/AQMJvBPBebog8Xm49_ERkrVz9uWa4J5OdkYLJThsovaKBw055yTJnhg5mKHmbygBlnRZF12QFuK21htLK4u7vMobZbPFYdbf-a4yvSDfNXNJ6yBnujkF1uDqJXQYgg.jpeg?fit=1200%2C649&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/AQMJvBPBebog8Xm49_ERkrVz9uWa4J5OdkYLJThsovaKBw055yTJnhg5mKHmbygBlnRZF12QFuK21htLK4u7vMobZbPFYdbf-a4yvSDfNXNJ6yBnujkF1uDqJXQYgg.jpeg?fit=1200%2C649&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":413878,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=413878","url_meta":{"origin":270980,"position":3},"title":"An Ice Age May Come, New York Post, But If It Does, Ocean Current Collapse Won\u2019t Be the Cause","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"11\/19\/2025","format":false,"excerpt":"The New York Post (NYP) covered a recent study that claims the \u201cGulf Stream\u201d could soon collapse due to human caused climate change. Scientifically, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) has slowed and sped up on its own due to physical factors that humans have no control over, but it\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC)\"","block_context":{"text":"Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=atlantic-meridional-overturning-circulation-amoc"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/0AQMyuaW5zRRfKusWuCVy5OtlBavUb_8xSDgknI5zE1YjyJLUKkWc0oM5PV5getJbgkX3P2mhQJaUaZoy2dKBryYVuLLDQ6ipN27btSN0pVkVlFqTDT178iD5zD1suVWU-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C701&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/0AQMyuaW5zRRfKusWuCVy5OtlBavUb_8xSDgknI5zE1YjyJLUKkWc0oM5PV5getJbgkX3P2mhQJaUaZoy2dKBryYVuLLDQ6ipN27btSN0pVkVlFqTDT178iD5zD1suVWU-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C701&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/0AQMyuaW5zRRfKusWuCVy5OtlBavUb_8xSDgknI5zE1YjyJLUKkWc0oM5PV5getJbgkX3P2mhQJaUaZoy2dKBryYVuLLDQ6ipN27btSN0pVkVlFqTDT178iD5zD1suVWU-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C701&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/0AQMyuaW5zRRfKusWuCVy5OtlBavUb_8xSDgknI5zE1YjyJLUKkWc0oM5PV5getJbgkX3P2mhQJaUaZoy2dKBryYVuLLDQ6ipN27btSN0pVkVlFqTDT178iD5zD1suVWU-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C701&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/0AQMyuaW5zRRfKusWuCVy5OtlBavUb_8xSDgknI5zE1YjyJLUKkWc0oM5PV5getJbgkX3P2mhQJaUaZoy2dKBryYVuLLDQ6ipN27btSN0pVkVlFqTDT178iD5zD1suVWU-1.jpeg?fit=1200%2C701&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":218497,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=218497","url_meta":{"origin":270980,"position":4},"title":"Are the North Atlantic Currents Strengthening or Weakening?","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"09\/12\/2022","format":false,"excerpt":"The modelers may think differently on this, but the temperate-loving phytoplankton that have recently migrated to the Arctic would surely beg to differ.","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/image-599.png?fit=1024%2C513&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/image-599.png?fit=1024%2C513&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/image-599.png?fit=1024%2C513&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/image-599.png?fit=1024%2C513&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":269746,"url":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=269746","url_meta":{"origin":270980,"position":5},"title":"Climate Disaster Study: Gulf Stream Could Collapse as Early as 2025","author":"uwe.roland.gross","date":"07\/27\/2023","format":false,"excerpt":"An AMOC collapse is believed to have caused the\u00a0Younger Dryas, an abrupt return to Northern Hemisphere ice age conditions which occurred 12,900 years ago, which lasted over a thousand years.","rel":"","context":"In \"Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC)\"","block_context":{"text":"Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC)","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?tag=atlantic-meridional-overturning-circulation-amoc"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/0globaloceancurrents.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/0globaloceancurrents.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/0globaloceancurrents.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/0globaloceancurrents.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/07\/0globaloceancurrents.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/270980","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/121246920"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=270980"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/270980\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":270989,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/270980\/revisions\/270989"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/270988"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=270980"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=270980"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=270980"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}