{"id":238185,"date":"2023-01-06T19:22:34","date_gmt":"2023-01-06T18:22:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=238185"},"modified":"2023-01-06T19:22:36","modified_gmt":"2023-01-06T18:22:36","slug":"podcast-report-the-cobalt-free-battery","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?p=238185","title":{"rendered":"Podcast Report: The Cobalt Free Battery"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"840\" height=\"467\" data-attachment-id=\"238187\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/?attachment_id=238187\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/0joerogan-04.webp?fit=1200%2C667&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"1200,667\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-title=\"0joerogan-04\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/0joerogan-04.webp?fit=840%2C467&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/0joerogan-04.webp?resize=840%2C467&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-238187\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/0joerogan-04.webp?resize=1024%2C569&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/0joerogan-04.webp?resize=300%2C167&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/0joerogan-04.webp?resize=768%2C427&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/0joerogan-04.webp?w=1200&amp;ssl=1 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 1362px) 62vw, 840px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From <a href=\"http:\/\/cliscep.com\/2023\/01\/06\/podcast-report-the-cobalt-free-battery\/\">Climate Scepticism<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>By \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/cliscep.com\/author\/canmane\/\">MIKE DOMBROSKI<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There is a viral video clip going around of Joe Rogan interviewing an author named Siddharth Kara. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He has a new book coming out this month called\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Cobalt-Red-Blood-Congo-Powers\/dp\/1250284309\/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;qid=1672967970&amp;sr=8-1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><em>Cobalt Red<\/em><\/a>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He tells Rogan about the horrific conditions in the cobalt mines in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He says three quarters of the world\u2019s cobalt supply comes from this region and that there is an expansion of this mining mostly driven by the rise of electric cars. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In passing he mentions that all the big cobalt mines are controlled by the\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/cliscep.com\/2021\/06\/20\/enemy-mine\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Chinese<\/a>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s another shorter\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/EmQdbaFF_BA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">lesser viewed clip<\/a>\u00a0where they go into more detail about China. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">By an uncanny coincidence this country was also the scene of a major colonial period of exploitation for rubber a century ago instigated by King Leopold II of Belgium. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The horrors and genocide are chronicled in Adam Hochschild\u2019s book\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/King-Leopolds-Ghost-Heroism-Colonial-ebook\/dp\/B004KZOWEG\/ref=sr_1_1?crid=277DS0ZSWD4WD&amp;keywords=king+leopold%27s+ghost&amp;qid=1672969818&amp;sprefix=king+leop%2Caps%2C150&amp;sr=8-1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">King Leopold\u2019s Ghost<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"840\" height=\"473\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/CIWvk3gJ_7E?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In following the topic of cobalt I started running across claims that half of Teslas new cars are being made with lithium-ion batteries that contain no cobalt. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I also found claims that teardowns of Tesla\u2019s new 4680 batteries introduced on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/cliscep.com\/2020\/09\/23\/teslas-battery-day\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">battery day<\/a>\u00a0contain nickel and cobalt in their cathodes just like they always have. So are there lithium-ion batteries that do not contain cobalt? <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The answer is an unequivocal yes and they are being used in some of Tesla\u2019s cars. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They are called lithium iron phosphate batteries and are often designated LFPs (for Lithium Ferris Phosphate). <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tesla\u2019s old batteries can be dubbed NCAs (for the Nickel Cobalt Aluminum in their cathodes). Others are dubbed NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt). <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tesla started using LFP batteries probably about a year ago in their model 3s made in China as described in this\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=o6hPkWnEjM8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Now You Know Clip<\/a>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They are made in Tesla\u2019s giga-factory in China by two Chinese companies. They are also being imported and installed in Model 3s made in the U.S. They have a different form from Tesla\u2019s ribbon batteries which are rolled into cylinders. They are called prismatic and are box shaped. There is another lithium-ion form called pouch which GM uses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=FdZL8RF3thI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">video<\/a>\u00a0gives a very detailed and fairly comprehensible description of the chemistry involved. It\u2019s long, but gives very clear explanations of the advantages and disadvantages between LFPs and NCAs. I\u2019ll list some highlights:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"840\" height=\"473\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/FdZL8RF3thI?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">2-6 minutes: A description of the crystal structures of the cathodes of LFPs and NCAs with very clear graphics that show intricate details.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">6 minutes: It\u2019s shown how carbon coating and doping with magnesium greatly raise the capacity of LFP.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">7 minutes: Explains the effect of LFP\u2019s lower voltage.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">8-9 minutes: LFP\u2019s flat voltage curve is explained. This makes it hard to measure the level of charge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">10 minutes: Low particle size, carbon coating and magnesium doping made LFP viable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">11-12 minutes: Shows how LFPs crystal structure is more stable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">13-14 minutes: Describes how LFP is more fire resistant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">15-16 minutes: Shows tables of the gravimetric and volumetric differences in energy densities. The differences in the pack densities can be reduced since LFPs need less robust packing material.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">17-19 minutes: Shows tables explaining how vehicles are affected.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">20-22 minutes: Discusses LFP poor low temperature performance and remedies.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">23-26 minutes: Discusses LFP\u2019s potential for longer cycle life..<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">27-28 minutes: Discusses costs and mineral constraints.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">29 minutes: Shows a summary table.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">30-31 minutes: Expresses enthusiasm for LFPs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019m left with the impression that LFPs have a very bright future. LFPs are going to have a lower energy density of around 20% gravimetric and 30% volumetric at the pack level, but they will not be subject to nickel and cobalt bottlenecks or the stigma of cobalt mining practices. Their cathodes will certainly be cheaper. They also appear to have important fire resistance advantages. Nickel and cobalt batteries will probably still have a place in high end, high performance vehicles.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Most of my research for this posts is from various YouTube channels and I\u2019m finding a lot of enthusiasm for LFP batteries. There also appears to be lots of plans by car makers to switch to LFPs. Here\u2019s a video about Ford\u2019s plan to use LFPs that also gives a good brief overview of the technology:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"840\" height=\"473\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/5sM1V8DOfDU?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s no Moore\u2019s Law for batteries, but there\u2019s lots of enthusiasm and entrepreneurship that is similar to the microcomputer and internet revolutions. Lots of car companies are introducing new electric models as are motorcycle and semi truck makers. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I suspect in the short run they are all headed on a collision course with a brick wall of commodities inflation. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What I would like to suggest for policy makers is that making batteries is an industrial activity that requires lots of energy and materials (particularly minerals) and that they should take a hard look at where these come from. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They likely have romanticized notions about free electricity coming from wind and solar with batteries smoothing out the intermittency. Industrial activity requires huge amounts of reliable energy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lithium-ion batteries amount to expensive and limited backup for wind and solar. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They would also compete for lithium and the various ions needed for EV batteries. Fracked gas would make a better industrial backup and even primary source of energy for battery factories. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Trucks and mining equipment are going to need lots of diesel fuel to supply these battery factories. The decision to cancel Keystone should be reviewed. Wind and solar use lots more materials that batteries compete for than does nuclear. Nuclear is a long term, clean, carbon free energy source and that it takes a long time to build means it won\u2019t be rapidly requiring a lot of those materials and energy that battery factories will be in the same market for. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the long run, nuclear plants provide huge amounts of constantly available electricity, which is something a lot of EVs are going to need.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As for cobalt, it is not intrinsically evil. It\u2019s a vital mineral used for lots of things besides consumer electronics and EV batteries. The main problem is a lack of development and political chaos that\u2019s left the Democratic Republic of the Congo vulnerable to warlords and exploitation by a totalitarian regime.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>By an uncanny coincidence this country was also the scene of a major colonial period of exploitation for rubber a century ago instigated by King Leopold II of Belgium. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":121246920,"featured_media":238187,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_seo_schema_type":"","_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_wpcom_ai_launchpad_first_post":false,"_jetpack_hide_featured_image":false,"_jetpack_featured_image_duplicate_dismissed":0,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-238185","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paxLW1-ZXH","jetpack-related-posts":[],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/climatescience.press\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/01\/0joerogan-04.webp?fit=1200%2C667&ssl=1","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/238185","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/121246920"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=238185"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/238185\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":238195,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/238185\/revisions\/238195"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/238187"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=238185"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=238185"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/climatescience.press\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=238185"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}